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Problem: At present there is no [gta-online] tag, as some moderators have been actively removing it from questions when it has been used, forcing those with questions relating to this online game to use [grand-theft-auto-v], making no distinction between the two very different games.

Obviously GTA Online is only available with a purchase and installation of Grand Theft Auto V, but shouldn't there be some way to filter these questions?

Suggestion:

  • refers to the single player game starring Michael, Franklin and Trevor.
  • refers to the persistent online world of GTA.

Whatever the consensus, these are essentially two different games with questions that don't relate to each other, so I believe there should be some way to separate them.

Also, seeing their obvious differences, it would make sense for the use of one tag or the other, but not both (unless the question really does relate to both games).

More information on what GTA Online is:

As this discussion has progressed it's made me aware of how people are misunderstanding what GTA Online is. The fact that it's including with Grand Theft Auto V has led to some assuming that it's directly connected with that game. Just an add-on. The multiplayer aspect of the single player game.

In reality Rockstar have done something (as far as I'm aware) unprecedented: GTA Online is actually more like an entirely separate MMO that just happens to use the same assets as GTAV. And yes, they've essentially given it away "free" with GTAV. (Although, don't be fooled, they're expected to earn $100 million directly from GTA Online alone.)

For those who haven't experienced it yet, the important thing to remember is that GTA Online is a completely separate game, designed to be tweaked, maintained and expanded by Rockstar for years to come. It is not dependent on the original game, and advice for progressing in it will be completely different to advice for progressing in Grand Theft Auto V.

One way of looking at it is this: GTA Online is to Grand Theft Auto V what The Old Republic is to Knights of the Old Republic. The only difference is that GTA Online uses the same assets and engine as GTAV, and was given away with that game.

Or as President of Rockstar North, Leslie Benzie, put it:

"Grand Theft Auto Online is a different entity, a separate thing. It's not part of GTAV. It'll grow on its own..."

Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/423020/gta-v-interview-rockstar-north-president-leslie-benzies-on-gta-online/

They're different games.

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    Rockstar-social-club is an entirely different beast than gta-online.
    – Sterno
    Oct 9, 2013 at 13:29
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    Don't use [online], it's a tag simile to [multiplayer] anyway. Having said that, if the users who play the game wish to have separate tags, I support [gta-online] as long as the tag wiki excerpts are clear on their use.
    – MBraedley
    Oct 9, 2013 at 13:30
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    I'm absolutely speechless that anyone could be under the impression that Rockstar Social Club is synonymous with GTA Online. RSC is a website which (amongst other things) helps users track their progress in Red Dead Redemption, LA Noire, Max Payne 3, Midnight Club Los Angeles, Grand Theft Auto IV, etc. etc. Perhaps you should read this @fbueckert: socialclub.rockstargames.com/about
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 13:31
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    @fbueckert It seems that some overzealous moderating has caused this problem, then. The community created [GTA-Online] for a good reason. At present the only way to distinguish between the two games is to put "(not GTA Online)" in the question's title!
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 14:21
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    The tag is currently grand-theft-auto-5 and I think it should be kept that way (for consistency) instead of making it V.
    – 3ventic
    Oct 9, 2013 at 14:41
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    No, you got two users to approve your edit. Anyone can create a tag; I (or anyone else) can just as easily remove it. Two users approving an edit does not indicate community consensus.
    – Frank
    Oct 9, 2013 at 14:52
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    If grand-theft-auto-5-ifruit gets a tag (with all of three questions) then gta-online really needs its own tag!
    – boomstick
    Oct 9, 2013 at 14:59
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    It seems the people who are opposing this are those who haven't actually played GTA Online :-/ Is it unreasonable to ask people without direct experience to not throw their oar in?
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:01
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    @fbueckert Yes, you need to have knowledge and experience of this site, but without knowledge and experience of the games in question as well, how can you have an informed opinion?
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:14
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    @DjangoReinhardt No, it's not. Game knowledge is useful, and can help, but the whole point of tagging is to help the site. There's a reason tagging comes at a higher privilege level. More goes into it than knowing about the game, and it's disrespectful to users to go, "You don't play the game, so your opinion doesn't count." That invalidates whatever experience they bring to the table.
    – Frank
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:17
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    Except it's not ignorance. It's a different perspective. I'm pretty sure this isn't a gaming first, and especially if it is, excluding people on the basis they haven't played this does the site a great disservice. That's why I'm saying it's unreasonable. Rather than implying that those who haven't played it should butt out, why not TELL us what those differences are? That's reasonable. What you're asking is not.
    – Frank
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:24
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    But ARE they really different games? I've read that a patch for GTA 5 closes some exploits in GTA Online. That implies a degree of interconnectivity. The fact that the GTA 5 disc must be in the drive to play GTA Online also implies that there are some dependencies. You may think it's black and white; I don't think it's quite that clear cut.
    – Frank
    Oct 9, 2013 at 20:43
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    @fbueckert Doesn't matter. Community considers them separate. Tag folksonomies are not dictated to the community, the community generates the tag folksonomy. Consider this: is DayZ the same as Arma 2? No. But they use the same executable. The only difference is the content that is loaded and played, which is the same as GTAV/GTAO.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Oct 10, 2013 at 21:42
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    @SevenSidedDie And I'm fine with that. I'm challenging the (unreasonable) assumption that only those who have played it should be participating in this discussion. There's enough information out there for us to make an informed decision, whether we've played it or not.
    – Frank
    Oct 10, 2013 at 21:45
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    @fbueckert I think the emerging/ed consensus is that they are distinct games, sharing an executable/launcher/engine. I think the "can people who haven't played debate this?" is a non-issue since the Arqade community doesn't support it, nor would the site function if we started enforcing such an idea. It only ever gets expressed by new users, and it never gains support.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Oct 10, 2013 at 21:52

3 Answers 3

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Edited to add: My last sentence in the original answer below is really the most important aspect and I wanted to elaborate.

and are DIFFERENT GAMES, and should be tagged accordingly.

Even the president of Rockstar North says so in an interview with CVG.

He explained: "It'll be GTA Online; it's not part of GTA 5. Obviously it's set in the GTA 5 engine, but it's going to grow and evolve into its own thing." Access to GTA Online will come for free with every retail copy of GTA 5.

I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to believe that GTAO will be released on it's own someday. I know Rockstar's current position is that won't be happening, but policies change - after all they don't want to discourage anyone from buying GTAV at full price.

Also, GTAO has a high potential to be patched and changed over time, making the divide between the two games ever larger.

If I play GTAV on Xbox but don't have a Gold subscription, I'm not going to care about GTAO questions and answers. If such a question was only tagged with and did not specify game mode, I could actually be misinformed, which is the last thing we want to happen here on arqade.

Isn't the most basic test for if two tags are both useful whether a user would want to subscribe to one, but ignore the other?

I only bought GTA 5 for online play

I only bought gta 5 for the story line

It may not be everyone, but it's not unreasonable.

I think and should be separate tags.

This question stands out specifically. This other question was asked and quickly closed as a duplicate, but from my time playing GTA Online I don't think it is a valid duplicate.

In story mode you can increase your skills by going to a shooting range and earning medals in challenges. But in online mode there are no medals since the shooting range is a competitive sport. Do you gain the same skill increase by winning a challenge as earning a medal? Also, online mode introduces new job types. Does winning a race increase your driving skill? Does participating in Arm Wrestling (completely new event type) increase your strength?

Certainly the existing answer at the first question could be updated to fit both game modes. But wait, there's more!

This question asks about garages. Garages in story mode are very different from garages in Online mode. The exact same question would have different answers for GTAV vs. GTAO.

In fact, I can think of many potential questions that would have completely different answers in the two game modes (some of which have been asked in some form or another). How do I save my progress? How do I unlock [weapon X]? Is there any risk to stealing cars? What's the best way to make money?

Different users are going to focus on one mode or another. It isn't realistic to expect everyone to answer for both game modes.

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    So, effectively, Rock Star has created GTA5, which is not only a stand-alone game, but they're also using it as an engine and client to run a separate MMO called GTO. Yeah, that sounds like we need two tags for two different things.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Oct 9, 2013 at 17:19
  • @SevenSidedDie Yeah, that's essentially what they've done. It's quite a shrewd business move, too, given the planned microtransactions: Create a "lite" MMO using the engine/assets, give away a copy for free to everyone who buys GTAV, and (hopefully) earn a ton more money through microtransactions. Estimated income from this plan? $100 million over five years. Not too shabby!
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 17:50
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    I'd also like to add that some time spent searching online makes it appear that the gaming community at large considers GTAV and GTA Online to be separate games (this includes both gamers and the media). Rockstar seems to have similiar feelings.
    – Wipqozn Mod
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:39
  • @Wipqozn That's one of the reasons why I put the two logos in the original question: Rockstar most certainly does not see them as being the same thing.
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:40
  • You stole my thoughts! I was editing in the same thing as you guys commented :)
    – dpatchery
    Oct 9, 2013 at 19:55
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I don't think there's enough of a difference to have two different tags. Whatever R*s marketing, they are both GTA5. We don't have separate tags for the single- and multi-player elements of Starcraft 2, even when they need vastly different strategies.

People can identify in their question whether they're talking about the single- or multi-player.

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    The problem with this view point, is that the mechanics in each game are different, with a future content strategy quoted by Rockstar which will differentiate them further. The developer calls them two separate games, the media calls them two separate games, so should we.
    – kalina
    Oct 10, 2013 at 10:37
  • The mechanics aren't really that different. Other than a few instances (ie, property ownership) there's not really much between them.
    – TZHX
    Oct 10, 2013 at 10:48
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    Another person who sounds like he's going purely by what they've read...?
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 10, 2013 at 10:49
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    @DjangoReinhardt No, actually, going by what I've played of the game. I don't think the online component is different enough for us to call it two different games.
    – TZHX
    Oct 10, 2013 at 10:51
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    Seemingly, the entire games industry, the developer, and the fans of the game disagree that they're the same game.
    – kalina
    Oct 10, 2013 at 11:07
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    @kalina the developer says they're different for marketing, the media repeat what the developers say, the "fans" (rather than people who just played and liked the game) rabidly repeat whatever R* tell them.
    – TZHX
    Oct 10, 2013 at 11:52
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    @DjangoReinhardt Please stop assuming people answering don't know what they are talking about. It is rude and disrespectful.
    – Niro
    Oct 10, 2013 at 12:42
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    @Robotnik re-read everything I've said, conclude that I'm saying there should be two tags, stop asking me why I'm disagreeing with you, resolved.
    – kalina
    Oct 10, 2013 at 12:47
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    @kalina - Wow. Chill out man, I wasn't being hostile. Like I said I agree with you (there should be two tags), just not with your reasoning about future promises made by the people with their hand on the kill switch.
    – Robotnik Mod
    Oct 10, 2013 at 12:57
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    We have tags according to what the game-playing community thinks should be treated as distinct things. The gaming community of GTA* treats V and Online as different things, therefore we tag them as different things. We are not going to have people coming here and say "I'm playing GTAO, here is my question, can someone put a GTAO tag on this?" and then tell them "No you're wrong you're playing GTAV. Tagging as such." That's just not how we do things.
    – SevenSidedDie
    Oct 10, 2013 at 16:34
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    And a lot of those that think otherwise (that there should be two tags) are also just going in things they read.
    – TZHX
    Oct 11, 2013 at 16:44
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    @DjangoReinhardt Regardless of your reasoning behind it, your rude/hateful comments are not constructive to the issue at hand, nor are they welcome on this site.
    – Niro
    Oct 11, 2013 at 16:49
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    I am with @Fluttershy on this - be civil or don't take part.
    – kalina
    Oct 11, 2013 at 16:51
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    @fbueckert (and others) Debating something using reason and logic is not the same as "lashing out". Attacking someone's opinion is not the same as attacking someone. You've taken what I've said about your argument to be a personal insult, when I have not engaged in "hateful" anything anywhere.
    – Django Reinhardt
    Oct 11, 2013 at 16:56
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    Django: saying 'another person who hasn't played the game' and 'interesting. How exactly are they the same?' Is passive aggressive at best, and certainly rude.
    – TZHX
    Oct 11, 2013 at 16:58
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I've been using the tags and in my questions about GTA online

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    While I don't like this approach, it definitely is consistent with what we've done for other things in the past, such as Mass Effect 3's Multiplayer.
    – Sterno
    Oct 9, 2013 at 18:51
  • @Sterno there was a plan to retag ME3 multiplayer questions. I guess [multiplayer] was deemed to be too important.
    – MBraedley
    Oct 9, 2013 at 20:07
  • @Sterno Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer weren't two separate games though...
    – kalina
    Oct 10, 2013 at 10:36
  • @kalina From what I've been told (though not experienced firsthand), neither are GTA Online and GTA5, since you actually launch GTA Online through the GTA5 client. It's possible I've been misinformed. If I haven't been, the only real difference seems to be that GTA Online is marketed with its own name. Though to be clear, I'm not saying this is the best answer. I think I actually prefer two separate tags. I think we probably should have done that with Mass Effect 3 as well.
    – Sterno
    Oct 10, 2013 at 13:46

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