Is this question on 2nd person view in video games answerable in its current state?

It seems difficult to answer and argumentative for a few reasons:

  • 2nd person in not well defined in video games.
  • Many definitions are opinions.
  • No answer has been accepted.

Discussion is great, but the discussion has been ongoing for nearly 9 months and no answer has stood out as both objective and widely accepted. I feel that this is a strong indicator for a question that is subjective and argumentative, and also unanswerable.

I attempted to raise my concern in comments and with a close vote, but I've been unable to lock in a close vote because multiple (I think two) bounties have been placed on the question over the past while. So I'd like to hear people's opinions here.

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    What's the problem with the third point? Your summary conclusion ("...showing there is no obvious answer") is an extreme over-generalization, if not just wrong. – Nick T Apr 14 '11 at 3:10
  • It may be an over-generalization, but I don't think it's just wrong. I'll remove the point then if it doesn't take away from my argument . – Sadly Not Apr 14 '11 at 20:31

Concerning the bounties,

My only intent is to get more and better answers. Is that not the exact purpose of posting a bounty? Is that not what this community is about? Kids years from now are going to be wondering about second person views in their weaker moments. Shouldn't gaming.stackexchange be the definitive resource for clearing up any future misunderstandings?

I "threw away" my bounty because I did not feel that any of the answers in their current form were worth the +500, despite making suggestions and comments on many answers in hopes that a better one would form.

I'm well aware of my own limitations and would not be above admitting my answer is wrong, if only a better answer would emerge. But since I am very interested in the question, and believe very strongly that it has a definitive answer, I posted the two bounties quite deliberately hoping just that would happen.

If the community ends up ignoring the second bounty, then so be it. Whatever the case, I do not want it removed.

  • There's nothing wrong with throwing away your bounty, if no one deserves it then you shouldn't give it to them. I think it's legitimate to try and get better answers by posting a second bounty, and if that is your intention then maybe removing your bounty is the wrong thing to do. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 19:00
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    However, I don't recommend posting another bounty on the question right after the current bounty ends. I still believe that the question needs some time without a bounty so that people can vote on how answerable it is. Others seem to agree and we will all likely vote for removing the bounty if you post one immediately after the current one ends. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 19:10
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    @SadlyNot Removing bounties is not up for voting. Citation needed for "all" – badp Apr 13 '11 at 19:23
  • I meant people that agree with me on the closing, I know they're out there but I'm not sure who upvoted my comments on closing it :) If a third bounty happens right after the second I will put removing it up for voting on meta. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 19:32
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    The other issue is, during the first bounty timeframe, in a comment to the Question, you (@Christian) said "I've already decided that my answer is the correct one...". And given that there were several answers (which seem to cover the range of possibilities) that you rejected - I don't see why you expect to get a "better" answer than yours. So what is the point of a second bounty? – Cyclops Apr 13 '11 at 19:35
  • In any case I want to leave things alone right now at Christian's request. I don't totally agree with his opinion but I respect his wish (and have accepted his answer as the course of action). – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 19:41

It looks to me as if the bounty is not there as an attempt to get a better answer, but just for the sake of re-raising the (argumentative) opinion of the one posting the bounty.

I realize bounties cost hard-earned reputation, and yet I consider this an abuse of the system - this is a problem with the user, not the question. Of course, I might be wrong, and it's important to hear that user's input on it. I think the user should be contacted by the mods and asked - talking is always the best way.

If that contact cannot be established, I think the bounty should be forcefully removed, but I don't see a need for the question to be closed.

  • The question itself is not a bad one, I think that once we settle on a definition (that itself is already a question) then it can be answered and may be considered content for the site. The reason for it being closed it that the question is inducing argumentative and poor behaviour which is better suited to a discussion board than a Q&A site. – Glen Wheeler Apr 13 '11 at 7:27
  • Out of curiosity, is being able to contact users directly, one of the powers of a moderator? Presumably so, but just checking. – Cyclops Apr 13 '11 at 13:00
  • @Cyclops We have a few measures for that purpose, but for privacy reasons we can't disclose what contact messages we send out to anyone, I hope you understand. – Grace Note Apr 13 '11 at 13:31
  • @Grace, I wasn't asking for a cc: of the email :) Just curious if our (game-meta) mods had the power, as opposed to kicking it up to SE mods (which you've answered). – Cyclops Apr 13 '11 at 14:08
  • @Cyclops I'm more noting that I don't believe I'm allowed to confirm whether or not we've actually contacted any specific user. – Grace Note Apr 13 '11 at 14:10
  • Christian can definitely be talked to, they've been very active on the site for a while now. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 14:17
  • This is definitely a reasonable set of steps to take. The question won't be closed outside of the voting system, so if you think it should be open then you don't have to use your vote. Closing it is only my opinion, not a necessary action. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 14:21

I think you stated it best with your first bullet point:

  • 2nd Person is not well defined in video games.

This will inevitably lead only to argumentation rather than factual expertise. Additionally, the question asks for a list of answers, which we generally don't do well with anyway.

Remove the bounty. Close the question.

  • I'm guessing that the magic required to close it now is more complicated than simply waiting it out. – Sadly Not Apr 12 '11 at 21:13
  • I was considering making a post about my concern that questions can stay open by intentionally countering close votes with bounties. This may not be the case here. However, there was some agreement in the comments to close the question once the bounty lifted and shortly after the bounty expired it was renewed (hmmm). Maybe I'm just paranoid. – Sadly Not Apr 12 '11 at 21:15
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    @SadlyNot Ever since I first learned of that restriction I have thought it was terrible. Questions should be able to be closed when there are bounties on them. Having a bounty does not make a question legitimate. – Invader Skoodge Apr 12 '11 at 21:17
  • We can withdraw the bounty if this is the decided course of action. – Grace Note Apr 12 '11 at 21:22
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    @Grace Note: If the bounty can be withdrawn then I'd like for that to happen so the community can cast close votes. Can you post that option as an answer to see if everyone else agrees? – Sadly Not Apr 12 '11 at 21:24
  • @StrixVaria: If there was a way to automatically give a bounty back when a question is closed then there would be no need for that restriction, as far as I know. – Sadly Not Apr 12 '11 at 21:28
  • @Sadly I have to catch a ride, actually, so I won't be able to do anything now. But I'll see how things roll by the time I reach my destination. – Grace Note Apr 12 '11 at 21:29
  • @StrixVaria: Can I add to your answer that the bounty should be removed? It's that or I post my own answer :) – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 0:47
  • No way, this is highly entertaining :) Maybe he'll scrape up another 50 points for another bounty even... :> – Cyclops Apr 13 '11 at 1:41
  • @SadlyNot I've decided that I will withdraw the bounty only after some discussion on the matter occurs here first. I can't reinstate the bounty, so if we did come to some conclusion that the question was fine and the bounty should stick around, I'd like to have not jumped the gun. – Grace Note Apr 13 '11 at 10:58
  • @Cyclops: I think his reputation is entirely destroyed because of the bounties. It shows as -577 when searching the user page ... that's a first. Also, is that a bug? – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 14:15
  • @Sadly Not, yes, it's a bug - if you click through, he currently has 43 rep. On an unrelated note - on UnityAnswers we had some users with an actual effective -100 rep, based on constantly spamming bad/duplicate questions, etc. (Display doesn't drop below 1 though.) – Cyclops Apr 13 '11 at 14:41
  • Thanks @Grace for slowing us down, we've heard from Christian and now it seems removing the bounty would be a mistake. – Sadly Not Apr 13 '11 at 19:08

I don't think the bounties are very entertaining. They are clearly an exploit by Christian.

I endeavoured to find a correct definition, as would be considered by people who are experts in linguistics or the english language. The question I posed has been linked to three times as far as I am aware. I figured that such a move would go a long way to turning this into a question with an answer.

However it was dismissed out of hand and due to the continued illogical and argumentative behaviour in the question I would vote for it to be closed.


If "2nd person" isn't well defined simply say so, give a list of possible defintions perhaps and why they aren't great.

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    This is what @Christian did and now that answer has 12 downvotes despite it being the highest quality answer on the question. – Invader Skoodge Apr 12 '11 at 21:18
  • That might help direct the discussion, but will it lead to answering the question? I'm not sure how it could, so I will do so only to gain leverage in closing the question. – Sadly Not Apr 12 '11 at 21:19
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    @Strix Really? What I saw in his answer is "this is what the definition must be, because there's no other mathematically correct way of doing it" IIRC – badp Apr 12 '11 at 22:47
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    There is no way that his answer is the highest quality answer there. He simply states "This concept does not exist" and then berates others who do not agree. Even disregarding the fact that his opinion is essentially illogical, this behaviour should not be condoned by saying "he has the best answer here and it is downvoted X times". – Glen Wheeler Apr 13 '11 at 7:31

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