9

The tag just got added for review to this question:

How to quickly score 5,000,000 points in Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3?

The comment for adding it was that "this is essentially an achievement, even if Mario doesn't call it that".

While I agree it certainly is an achievement to get that amount of points, I'm wondering if it falls under that specific tag, which use is intended for questions about "badges, medals, trophies, records, distinctions or achievements", called 'milestones' further down the description excerpt, and is essentially "about earning a particular achievement".

Do informal/unofficial accomplishments fall under the tag?

11

I think they shouldn't.

The entire idea behind the tag seems to be to group questions about official achievements that everyone (having the particular game and platform it relates to) has equal access to.

Without that specification, the tag use will be at the mercy of subjective arguments and interpretation, making it hard to maintain and make a case for adding them to or removing them from questions.

Their parameters - both for earning and troubleshooting - are universal, allowing for objective answers, whereas those for accidental personal accomplishments aren't.

3

I think the tag should be about the concept, not about how the concept is called. The current tag excerpt and description already reflects that by mentioning badges, medals, trophies, records, distinctions or achievements.

Why should it not apply to getting 5/5 stars? Stars is yet another name for this kind of distinction. So I think it should also apply to getting stars.

And that is what the question is about:

[...] in order to get 5 stars on the title screen, the game requires you to score 5,000,000 points

This is not an unofficial achievement, its about how to earn 5/5 stars, which are an official distinction in the game -- exactly what the tag is about.

15
  • 1
    The tag is about Steam achievements, PSN trophies, Xbox Live achievements. Not any goal to be found in a game.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 16 '20 at 21:48
  • @Wrigglenite games had medals long before steam achievements. Hell, games have achievements that aren't steam achievements, see WoWs achievements. A fail to see how getting a platin medal in games like Rogue Squadron or a wow achievement is materially different from getting 5/5 stars in this game. Your narrowing of the tag to those 3 categories is not in line with the tag description and not with how historically those things came to be. Minecraft achievements are also used with this tag - and those fit neither of your categories, either.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 16 '20 at 22:34
  • 1
    @Wrigglenite "they provide players milestones to work towards, goals to complete, and can instill a sense of accomplishment for completing them". Tell me how getting 5/5 stars in that game doesn't fit that description.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 16 '20 at 22:37
  • The tag is not for any random goal acknowledged by the game, but specifically for capital A Achievements. Another example would be skill points in the Spyro games, those would count as well because they're presented as achievements. Getting 5 stars is not presented as an achievement, so the tag shouldn't be used.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 17 '20 at 6:59
  • @Wrigglenite "specifically for capital A Achievements". What is the material difference between whatever you are describing (whatever capital A achievements is supposed to mean, besides me being pretty sure thats not what the tag description says) and getting 5/5v stars? the stars are an official milestone/distinction system within the game - exactly what the tag is about.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 8:04
  • The difference is objectivity. A game's achievements are explicitly called so by the game, anything else is subjective. A look at the tag's synonyms makes it even more abundantly clear that the tag is meant to be used for capital A Achievements, not just any random ingame challenge.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 17 '20 at 8:11
  • @Wrigglenite Again, "capital A achievements" is a collection of letters that is completely void of any meaning for me. You have not explained at all what this is supposed to mean. You already acknowledge that the literal word "achievement" does not need to be mentioned, since PSN trophies count. The tag description lists more acceptable synonyms. If I replace the word, the question becomes acceptable? "How do I get 5/5 medals", "How do I get 5/5 trophies"? But once the word is stars, its suddenly unacceptable? Why? Its an official criterion given by the game to be awarded a distinction.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 8:46
  • 1
    "Achievements" in games is a widely understood term: it is a list of tasks, usually with a name, that are listed somewhere in the game, maybe in a menu called "Achievements" or "Trophies", or somewhere associated with the game, such as console achievements. The tag is not for accomplishing tasks, it is for the "Achievements" as recognized by the game. If the game lacks a definition of achievements, then they are not achievements. If anything, this discussion is showing just how terrible the achievements tag is, since it doesn't actually describe anything about the question.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 17 '20 at 9:46
  • @Wrigglenite I have been a gamer for decades and have seen how medals and other things morphed into what today are achievements. I still don't see your point why such things have to be named achievements or trophies, but not any other synonym that describes the same concept. Why is the WoW Achievement "It's Over Nine Thousand!" with the criterion "Earn more than 9000 achievement points." any different from "Score 5,000,000 points" as criterion for a star in another game? I fail to see where they materially differ. both are official recognition, with a clear defined criterion for achieving smth
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 9:59
  • @Wrigglenite This isn't a user inventing any unofficial or informal goal and describing it as achievement. Its a clearly defined achievement with a clear criterion for awarding it, as defined by the game itself in an official way.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 10:01
  • I don't know how else to say this. The achievements tag is only used for achievements. If anything, the achievements tag should go because it's useless.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 17 '20 at 10:11
  • 2
    @Wrigglenite "The achievements tag is only used for achievements". Sorry, but that is the most tautological, meaningless sentence I have ever read since you can't even describe what an achievement is and what makes it different from other forms of distinctions, especially since by your own admission the name doesn't even matter - see PSN trophies, which aren't even named achievements, but count. Are you saying you are the subjective judge what an achievement is? Thats not good enough. the tag description lays out objective criteria one can use, and the stars fulfill these objective criteria.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 11:01
  • @Wrigglenite The tag tag is used for medals, challenges and all the other things that are in its description. I fail to see why it applies to getting a gold medal, but not to getting all stars. Except that medals, challenges and stars are not named achievements, but two of them supposedly fall under the tag and one doesn't. All of them have an award criterion defined ingame.
    – Polygnome
    Jul 17 '20 at 11:08
  • The Red Dead Redemption achievement "Struck gold" requires you to earn all gold medals in co-op missions. The Modern Warfare 2 question shouldn't use the tag, so I have removed it.
    – Wrigglenite Mod
    Jul 17 '20 at 11:34
  • 1
    I actually think you make a good point about the score being officially recognized in-game, which is something I overlooked. While I still stand behind my answer as a general notion, and answering the generic question I asked, I wonder if the case that I used and you refer to is a good example (as it is not as unofficial as I originally assumed). Apparently, based on the discussion here, the description and interpretation of the tag is lacking in any case, and I wonder about its merit as well.
    – Joachim
    Jul 20 '20 at 12:35

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